Possible Remnants of a Cancelled Skirmish Mode in Sh3

[Sir Windows 34]

Greetings, Lords and Ladies!

Stronghold 3 is certainly a controversial entry in the series. From its troubled launch to bugs to broken features, the game struggled to make a name for itself. One of the standout odd decisions made by Firefly was the exclusion of a skirmish mode. This made Stronghold 3 the first game since Crusader to lack this feature. An official statement by Firefly even says:

Quote

We will look into releasing more maps in the future. We have released a complete map editor for players to build there own maps. The game was never designed to have Skirmish mode, it won't be coming. I don't want to sugar coat it but we will be adding new features in the coming patches.

 Recently, I replayed the game and got a bit frustrated by the fact that the lord has weird dark grey skin like a vampire. 🧛‍♂️ So I followed the guide found here and got into digging around the files in core.v to change the texture. I ended up finding some things that make me question Firefly's statement from fourteen years ago. In my opinion, there's a mountain of leftover content in the game, which clearly points to a skirmish mode being originally planned and likely scrapped late in development. Let us investigate this mystery.🕵️‍♂️

Remnant #1 - Lord models

The first remnant doesn't even require looking into the game files. It's enough to open the map editor or host a multiplayer game. In the game there are nine mostly unused lord models depicting Lord Longarm, Thomas Blackstaff, the Iron Duke, the Sultan, the Pig (Bishop), the Pig, the Rat, the Jackal and the Wolf. These models aren't even used in campaign missions where you face off against these characters directly (Military Mission 15 and Mission 3 & 5 Blackstaff DLC). There are also models for the generic lord, Lady Catherine and the King. These being the only ones used in the campaign. The only way to use these models is on custom maps or the multiplayer. Firefly would later go on to reuse the Rat, Pig, Jackal and Wolf in Crusader 2.

Spoiler

Remnant #2 - Sound files

Now, the lord models themselves are interesting, but they might simply be multiplayer content for the game. The story becomes fascinating once we go into Stronghold3/assets/sound/en/ folder. There we find an interesting file called speech_overlord.fsb. Again, using a guide found here, we can extract the contents of the folder. What we see is something anyone familiar with sound files from Crusader, Stronghold 2, Legends and Crusader 2 will immediately recognize. The folder contains all the skirmish related sound bits for Lady Catherine, the Rat, the Pig, the Jackal and the Wolf. Even sound bits like adding a player or removing them from the lobby are present. No speech files exist for Lord Longarms, Thomas Blackstaff, the Sultan or the Iron Duke. Either they were never meant to be in the skirmish mode, or Firefly scrapped it prior to recording their lines. All of these Stronghold 3 speech files would also be reused in Crusader 2. Lady Catherines lines would be used by the Princess. This also explains the Princess' odd choice of words when capturing an estate, "I claim these lands in the name of the queen". If one considers this was originally recorded for Catherine who is the Queen of England by the end of SH3 it makes a lot more sense. 

Spoiler

Remnant #3 - Portraits

Now we dive into the aforementioned core.v file. Following the guide, we unarchive its content and head into the interface/scaleform/portraits folder. This folder contains twenty portraits depicting the Pig (Bishop), the Jackal, the Pig, the Rat and the Wolf as angry/pleased/despaired/taunting. These were certainly intended to be used in-game when these characters send the player a message.

Spoiler

For one, these four emotions are used by AIs in Crusader 1 & 2, but there are also comments by the developers themselves stating that. For that, we need to head into the /scripts/interface/ folder and open up overlord.lua.

There we have the following description of what the file does from the devs:

-- Handle overlord interaction:

-- Given an overlord speech code (should correspond to the sound/localizationTag desired)

-- 1. Play an announcement from the scribe (specific to the overlord)

-- 2. Show an image of the overlord with appropriate emotion

-- 3. Play the specified speech

-- 4. Show subtitles

-- 5. Fade out

So the game was supposed to have a message system like the previous titles where the enemy/allied lords would contact you. It seems that Stronghold 3 was supposed to use something like a cross between Legends and Crusader, wherein the message is accompanied by a still image (Legends) but in multiple emotions (Crusader). Unfortunately, this feature didn't make it into the game, not even as part of the campaign. It certainly would've lifted the story if the player had interactions with his enemies like in Stronghold 1 at least. Concerning Longarm, Blackstaff, Sultan and Iron Duke; these characters have no portraits either and there is no mention of them anywhere. Though we have to consider that we don't know at which point in development this file was written up, as another comment shows that this feature wasn't complete.

    -- Store a lookup of overlord code to a table containing:

    -- { "image name prefix", "scribe announcement" }

    Overlord.Codes = {};

    Overlord.Codes["PI"] = {"pig", "MESSAGE_FROM3" };

    Overlord.Codes["RT"] = {"rat", "MESSAGE_FROM5" };  -- also, 6 and 7 for other rats... need separate images

    Overlord.Codes["JA"] = {"jackal", "MESSAGE_FROM4" };

    Overlord.Codes["WO"] = {"wolf", "MESSAGE_FROM1" };

    -- Overlord.CodesToNames["ca"] = "catherine";  -- TODO: Add if we get Catherine images

Lady Catherine didn't have portraits yet either, but was supposed to, as were the two other rats from the story. Currently, it's impossible to tell which of the three brothers the portrait depicts. 

Remnant #4 - Multiplayer rules comment

Finally, the last significant piece of evidence concerning skirmish mode is found in the /scripts/multiplayer/ folder's game_settings.lua file. The file itself is only interesting for two comments found there.

-- Clear any settings that must be reset for single player games

-- Ensure that single player settings don't propagate to MP if not explicitly set there

These two unassuming lines are interesting since there is no mode in single player that shares any kind of setting with the multiplayer. Maybe the scrapped skirmish mode was meant to have the same options as the multiplayer. 

Conclusion

This concludes this little investigation into Stronghold 3's missing game mode. While all of this isn't stone-cold proof, these little remnants paint a picture that there certainly was more to the game than what we got in the end. It's truly unfortunate that Firefly wasn't able to fully complete their game. Now with the Stronghold and Crusader Definitive Editions out, there's a glimmer of hope Stronghold 3 might get the update it is missing. In my opinion, Stronghold 3 deserves a second chance. For all its issues and bugs, the game still has a certain charm and has a lot of potential. In fact, I would even say it has the potential to become one of the best 3D Stronghold game out there if its issues are finally addressed and missing features implemented.

 

Thank you for reading. 🙇‍♂️

Edited July 22, 2025 by Sir Windows

[Asophix 113]

It is a very nice write-up you got there!

Lots of remnants are found in later games' codes which are similar to the listed ones. Crusader 2 and Warlords in my opinion are simply iterations of SH3 in a more complete phase. The systems were perfected in Crusader 2, and Warlords is give/take at some places. The inability to communicate with the AI can be partially restored, for example, to the extent that the Overlord will play the respective video and message string, but the voice is not played.

37 minutes ago, Sir Windows said:

So the game was supposed to have a message system like the previous titles where the enemy/allied lords would contact you. It seems that Stronghold 3 was supposed to use something like a cross between Legends and Crusader, wherein the message is accompanied by a still image (Legends) but in multiple emotions (Crusader).

If you take a look at C2 and Warlords, you'll see that the characters use the same four mood expressions. Interestingly, the AI was also supposed to randomly send taunt/reaction strings in the multiplayer lobby, for which the system is there, but not consumed. These triggers could be a character joining the lobby, allying, or just randomly being sent out by a slim chance every second.

39 minutes ago, Sir Windows said:

These two unassuming lines are interesting since the game features a script that makes sure single and multiplayer setting remain separated. Mainly because there is no mode in single player that shares any kind of setting with the multiplayer. Maybe the scrapped skirmish mode was meant to have the same options as the multiplayer. 

This stems from the fact that the Lua script contains the evaluation and high level logic, respectively. The implementations are given safeguards that help determine whether a map estate is owned by the AI, or a player. This decision is also implemented on Lua-level, not in the game binary. 

The fact that we can un-archive the .v files gives immense potential to mod the game. It's on the radar for me as well, since LuaScript is exposed a lot of entry points into the Vision-game executable. The problem with this is that it's bloated and badly arranged legacy code. There are a lot of quirks that can break the game, however careful re-implementation could help with anything. On a personal note, I find it an equivalent of a lifetime project, and whoever gets the time to do it, can do a great service. Sadly it's the high bar one needs to jump to even reach 0.1% of progress.

[Sir Windows 34]

19 minutes ago, Asophix said:

The inability to communicate with the AI can be partially restored, for example, to the extent that the Overlord will play the respective video and message string, but the voice is not played.

In Stronghold 3? I was wondering if it might be possible to create an event for the editor that would play an AI message.

20 minutes ago, Asophix said:

If you take a look at C2 and Warlords, you'll see that the characters use the same four mood expressions

I somehow didn't think of those two. Probably because I've mainly been playing Legends and Crusader DE recently. 😅

21 minutes ago, Asophix said:

The fact that we can un-archive the .v files gives immense potential to mod the game. It's on the radar for me as well, since LuaScript is exposed a lot of entry points into the Vision-game executable. The problem with this is that it's bloated and badly arranged legacy code. There are a lot of quirks that can break the game, however careful re-implementation could help with anything. On a personal note, I find it an equivalent of a lifetime project, and whoever gets the time to do it, can do a great service. Sadly it's the high bar one needs to jump to even reach 0.1% of progress.

It's tempting for sure, but as far as implementing a skirmish mode into Stronghold 3 is concerned, I think it's best to either let Firefly do it in a Stronghold 3 DE or make a Stronghold Europe 2 mod. It's should easier to implement Stronghold 3 assets into Crusader 2 than to attempt to try and build a new game mode for Stronghold 3. 

[Asophix 113]

@ Sir Windows

• Oops 😄 I meant it for Warlords. In SH3 I'm completely out of the loop, as I don't even know how a multiplayer lobby is played with anyone today. 
  From Crusader 2 it can be seen that a message queue system is implemented (that's why messages get processed with delays). Warlords removed this system for the AI behind the scenes, but the skeleton of the Lua script still remains in place.
• 😄 It's enough to take a look at the videos to verify.
• Honestly, I'm not even sure that SH3 in its current stage would be able to handle a proper Skirmish experience, even with Legends constraints (i.e. max 4 players). Given how badly the game runs with lots of units on the map, and the AI is basically non-existent, it's a far cry. Sadly Lua won't be able to alleviate the burden on a subpar graphics engine; we can see how C2 also falls to 30 fps after the first two minutes of a match.

On a personal note: I'm not sure Firefly will ever be able to deliver a proper remaster experience for that game. Yeah, new blood definitely helps, but they always carved their own path with user feedback being secondary in terms of principal design decisions. I'd rather see a finished SH3 in the Vision Engine, given how Warlords is a really well done game, strictly technically speaking.

[Sir Windows 34]

We'll have to wait and see what Firefly has got in store for Stronghold 3 if anything. At least from some of their statements, it seems like Stronghold 2 will get a DE.

Also, the feature to have lords talk to the player in Stronghold 3 works, and the default rat is Roger Scabcoat for any lore enthusiast. The editor event to play an overlord message is fully functional. Somehow, I didn't even think to check if it exists until now. There's the option to suppress the scribe, if it's not turned on then he says "A message from Roger Scabcoat" before the message plays. 

Here's a small test of the event on the second Blackstaff mission. The scribe is set to suppressed. The rat addresses the player at the start of the invasion and once its troops are all dead.

 

[Asophix 113]

That's excellent 😄 The Rat messages are basically the same as in Crusader 2, by the way (at least they exist as one of the many messages of his)!

No idea why Roger Scabcoat the default "Rat" is, when Greytail is the most cunning and effective of the "ratlings". As far as I know, Scabcoat was pretty elementary and Silverback was also dealt with fairly easily in the lore. 😛 

[Sir Windows 34]

Probably since he's the oldest of the lot. There are also sound files for the scribe announcing a message from Greytail or Silverback. Unfortunately Firefly never got to implementing them properly. Another issue I ran into is the pig. Currently there's only a single set of of pig voicelines but both Swinefoot and Redham have portraits. If one sets up a message from the pig event in editor it'll play the lines and show a picture of Swinefoot but the scribe will say it's a message from Bishop Redham. 😞 

Edit: Fortunately the issue has been solved.

I've managed to build a separate Redham from Swinefoot. Fixing Swinefoot was easy as I only needed to change "Messagefrom3" to "Messagefrom2" in the Pig's entry within the overlord.lua. Getting Redham in was a bit more tricky.

1. Create a new entry in the overlord.lua for the bishop using the tag [BI]. 
   Overlord.Codes["BI"] = {"bishop", "MESSAGE_FROM3" };
2. Edit the sound_defs.lua and copy all the pig's entries but change PI_ to BI_. This way he's still using the pig's voice lines.
3. Head into the assets/sounds and add the necessary entries into sh3_overlord_sounds.txt.
4. In order for the game to play the proper subtitles unpack loc.v.
5. Edit the xml in /interface/i18n. Find the corresponding Pig lines, copy+paste and change PI_ to BI_.

It took a while to figure where everything is located but now both pigs work. 🐖🐖 

Edited July 24, 2025 by Sir Windows